August 2003
August 8 2003
48 Liberals line up against same-sex
Re-printed without permission
At least 48 Liberal MPs have publicly declared they are against legalizing same-sex marriage, the most opposition Prime Minister Jean Chrétien has faced from his caucus to one of his laws since coming into office 10 years ago.
A Globe and Mail survey of all Liberal MPs found 60 in favour of the government's proposed bill to legalize same-sex marriage, 48 opposed and 27 undecided. Twenty-nine refused to answer and seven could not be reached.
That Liberal opposition -- combined with MPs from other parties who are against the legislation -- throws into doubt whether the bill, to be decided in a free vote, will pass the Commons.
When opposition MPs are taken into account, both sides can claim roughly the same levels of support, with opponents holding a slight edge. That places passage of the bill in the hands of a clutch of undecided Liberals who are being arm-twisted by vociferous constituents.
Many of those who are undecided said they believe their constituents could accept a marriage-like, legally sanctioned union for gays and lesbians but they don't want to call it marriage.
"Although they're not opposed to same-sex unions, they don't understand at all why we would change the definition of the term marriage," said Yolande Thibeault, a Liberal MP from the suburban Montreal riding of Saint-Lambert. "It's the word marriage that's the obstacle."
Liberal backbenchers can break party ranks because they have been promised a free vote.
Cabinet ministers, however, are required to vote for the government bill to keep their jobs. But even they are not solidly behind the bill, the survey shows.
Natural Resources Minister Herb Dhaliwal, a senior minister, said he is undecided and must consult his constituents.
Fisheries Minister Robert Thibault, Labour Minister Claudette Bradshaw, Veterans Affairs Minister Rey Pagtakhan and junior foreign minister David Kilgour are also undecided.
But several other ministers refused to answer the question, a sign of the discomfort they face: Gerry Byrne, Atlantic Development; Ethel Blondin-Andrew, Secretary of State for Children and Youth; Paul DeVillers, Amateur Sport; and Jean Augustine, junior minister for multiculturalism and the status of women.
For the survey, reporters in The Globe and Mail's Ottawa bureau contacted the offices of all 171 Liberal MPs. Seven were out of the country or otherwise impossible to reach, while 29 would not answer or did not respond to repeated telephone calls.
Almost all the Liberal MPs are expected to gather for a three-day caucus meeting that begins Aug. 19, where many who have not met since the government proposed the bill promise an all-out confrontation.
To attempt to sway the undecided, Mr. Chrétien will argue for the bill when he meets the MPs, aides say.
"He's not going to preach. He's going to outline again what his position is, which is that there needs to be a separation between church and state, and that this is an issue of equality, and the government needs to protect the equality of all Canadians," spokeswoman Thoren Hudyma said.
"The Prime Minister will probably talk about the importance of the courts in the process. Also he's going to talk about the reality of the Charter of Rights."
In recent months, courts in Ontario and British Columbia have struck down the traditional heterosexual definition of marriage as a discriminatory violation of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, and same-sex marriages are already being performed in those provinces.
The federal government chose not to appeal, and instead proposed a bill to legalize same-sex marriages. But first, the Supreme Court of Canada is being asked whether that is constitutional. Then MPs will be allowed a free vote on the bill.
On the opposition side of the House of Commons, the vote is also split, but largely along party lines.
The Canadian Alliance (63 seats) and at least half the Tory caucus's 15 MPs are expected to vote against, giving opponents 70 to 75 votes. Most of the Bloc Québécois and NDP, and some Tories, will vote for, giving supporters 55 to 60 votes.
Many Liberal opponents of the bill say they are simply responding to their constituents' views. They said they have been flooded with complaints in their ridings since the government announced the move in June.
"I even hate to go to the grocery store. People just grab you by the arm and say, what is happening up in Ottawa? They cannot understand why this is an issue at this time," said Rose-Marie Ur, MP for Lambton-Kent-Middlesex.
Some opponents argue that court rulings that struck down the traditional definition of marriage should have been appealed at the Supreme Court, however.
"We just laid down and said whatever the courts say," said Brenda Chamberlain, Liberal MP for Guelph-Wellington. "What about what the people say?" However, many who support the bill suggest the opposition is vocal but not the majority. Polls show a majority of Canadians -- 54 per cent in a June Ipsos-Reid survey -- favour legalizing same-sex marriage.
Others who endorse same-sex marriage say it is not a matter of public opinion.
"It is a fundamental issue of human rights," Montreal MP Marlene Jennings said.
The dissenters also note the government promised that same-sex-marriage legislation would not be introduced when the Commons overwhelmingly voted to retain the traditional definition in 1999. Anne McLellan, who was then the justice minister and made the promise, now supports the legalization of same-sex marriage.
Richmond, B.C., MP Joe Peschisolido, who was elected as a Canadian Alliance MP and switched parties, said he has received more than 3,000 letters, e-mails, and calls: and 80 per cent are against same-sex marriage.
Where they stand The Globe contacted the offices of all 171 MPs to ask whether they are for or against the government's drat bill to legalize same-sex marriage. The bill changes the definition of marriage to include all unions of two people, regardless of sex, but does not force churches to marry same-sex couples.
Those who said they have not chosen which way they will vote are recorded as undecided, while those who were out of the country or otherwise impossible to reach are listed as unavailable. Overall results
For 60
Against 48
Undecided 27
Unavailable 7
Won't say 29
-*****
Adams, Peter For
Alcock, Reg Unavailable
Allard, Carole-Marie Against
Anderson,David (Min.) For
Assad, Mark Won't say
Assadourian, Sarkis Against
Augustine, Jean (Min.) Won't say
Bagnell, Larry For
Bakopanos, Eleni Unavailable
Barnes, Sue For
Barrette, Gilbert Against
Beaumier, Colleen For
Bélair, Réginald Undecided
Bélanger, Mauril For
Bellemare, Eugène Against
Bennett, Carolyn For
Bertrand, Robert Against
Bevilacqua, Maurizio (Min.) For
Binet, Gérard For
Blondon-Andrew, Ethel (Min.).Won't say
Bonin, Raymond Against
Bonwick, Paul Won't say
Boudria, Don (Min.) For
Bradshaw, Claudette (Min.) Undecided
Brown, Bonnie Won't say
Bryden, John Against
Buite, Sarmite For
Byrne, Gerry Won't say
Caccia, Charles (Min.) Won't say
Calder, Murray Against
Cannis, John Against
Caplan, Elinor (Min.) For
Carroll, Aileen Undecided
Castonguay, Jeannot Undecided
Catterall, Marlene For
Caucho, Martin (Min.) For
Chamberlain, Brenda Against
Charbonneau, Yvon Unavailable
Chrétien, Jean For
Coderre, Denis (Min.) For
Collenette, David For
Comuzzi, Joe Against
Copps, Sheila (Min.) For
Cotler, Irwin Unavailable
Cullen, Roy Against
Cuzner, Rodger Undecided
DeVillers, Paul (Min.) Won't say
Dhaliwal, Herb (Min.) Undecided
Dion, Stéphane (Min.) For
Discepola, Nick For
Dromisky, Stan Won't say
Drouin, Claude For
Duplain, Claude Against
Easter, Wayne (Min.) For
Efford, R. John Against
Eggleton, Art Undecided
Eyking, Mark Won't say
Farrah, Georges Won't say
Finlay, John Against
Folco, Raymonde Unavailable
Fontana, Joe Won't say
Frulia, Liza For
Fry, Hedy For
Gallaway, Roger Against
Godfrey, John For
Goodale, Ralph (Min.) For
Graham, Bill (Min.) For
Grose, Ivan For
Guarnieri, Albina Against
Harb, Mac For
Harvard, John For
Harvey, André Unavailable
Hubbard, Charles Against
Ianno, Tony For
Jackson, Ovid Against
Jennings, Marlene For
Jobin, Christian Undecided
Jordan, Joe For
Karetak-Lindell, Nancy Won't say
Karyglannis, Jim Against
Keyes, Stan Won't say
Kilger, Bob Against
Kilgour, David (Min.) Undecided
Knutson, Gar (Min.) For
Kraft Sloan, Karen For
Laliberte, Rick Won't say
Lastewka, Walt Against
LeBlanc, Dominic For
Lee, Derek Undecided
Leung, Sophia Undecided
Lincoln, Clifford Undecided
Longfield, Judi Against
MacAulay, Lawrence Won't say
Macklin, Paul Harold For
Mahoney, Steve (Min.) For
Malhi, Gurbax Against
Maloney, John Against
Manley, John (Min.) For
Marcil, Serge Won't say
Marleau, Diane Won't say
Martin, Paul For
Matthews, Bill Won't say
McCallum, John (Min.) For
McCormick, Larry Won't say
McGuire, Joe Won't say
McKay, John Against
McLellan, Anne (Min.) For
McTeague, Don Against
Milliken, Peter (Speaker) Won't say
Mills, Dennis Against
Minna, Maria Unavailable
Mitchell, Andy (Min.) For
Murphy, Shawn Against
Myers, Lynn Undecided
Nault, Robert (Min.) For
Neville, Anita For
Normand, Gilbert Against
O'Brien, Pat Against
O'Brien, Lawrence Won't say
O'Reilly, John Against
Owen, Stephen (Min.) For
Pacetti, Massimo Against
Pagtakhan, Rey (Min.) Undecided
Paradis, Denis (Min.) For
Parrish, Carolyn For
Patry, Bernard For
Peric, Janko Against
Peschisolido, Joe Against
Peterson, Jim Won't say
Pettigrew, Pierre (Min.) For
Phinney, Beth Undecided
Pickard, Jerry Against
Pillitteri, Gary Against
Pratt, David Undecided
Price, David Undecided
Proulx, Marcel Undecided
Provenzano, Carmen Against
Redman, Karen Undecided
Reed, Julian Against
Regan, Geoff Won't say
Robillard, Lucienne (Min.) For
Rock, Allan (Min.) For
Saada, Jacques For
Savoy, Andy Undecided
Scherrer, Hélène Undecided
Scott, Andy For
Serré, Benoit Won't say
Sgro, Judy Against
Shepherd, Alex Undecided
Simard, Raymond Won't say
Speller, Bob Against
St-Jacques, Diane For
St-Julien, Guy Against
St. Denis, Brent For
Steckle, Paul Against
Stewart, Jane (Min.) For
Szabo, Paul Won't say
Telegdi, Andrew Undecided
Thibault, Yolande Undecided
Tirabassi, Tony Won't say
Tonks, Alan Undecided
Torsney, Paddy For
Ur, Rose-Marie Against
Valeri, Tony Undecided
Vanclief, Lyle (Min.) For
Volpe, Joseph Against
Wappel, Tom Against
Whelan, Susan (Min.) For
Wilfert, Bryon Against
Wood, Bob Against